Guns and Ammo Enthusiast Blog A blog for and by Guns and Ammo Enthusiast's

Well it seems gun rationing has begun. First shot fired came from New Jersey. NJ residents buy up guns while you can!

Trenton, NJ – In the wee hours of Friday morning, June 26, Governor Corzine and his anti-gun cohorts in the New Jersey State Senate vote 21 to 15 to pass S1774, a bill that will arbitrarily ration the sale of handguns to one per month.

Earlier this year, S1774 was pulled from the Senate floor when the sponsor was unable to garner the necessary 21 votes for passage. This time, taking orders from Governor Corzine, Senator Fred Madden who previously voted “no” and committed to hold firm in that position, switched his vote at the last minute and voted “yes” to ration the Constitutional right of law-abiding citizens to obtain firearms.

As passed, this bill will prohibit an individual from purchasing more than one handgun within a 30-day period. The bill now moves to Governor Corzine’s desk for his consideration.

Please contact Governor Corzine and respectfully urge him to veto this bill and remind him that you will remember his decision on election day.

Contact information for Governor Corzine:
P. O. Box 001
Trenton, NJ 08625

609-292-6000the Governor

Arizona state senate gives the thumb’s up for guns and ammo on school campus’

PHOENIX — Saying it will make people safer, state senators voted Friday to let people with concealed weapons permits carry them onto college and university campuses where they are now forbidden.

The 15-6 vote on the provision in HB 2439 came after backers said they believe that having people who are licensed by the state to have weapons should cut down on the number of massacres that occur on campuses. And Sen. John Huppenthal, R-Chandler, said that has happened in Arizona.

He did not refer by name to the 2002 incident at the University of Arizona where three instructors at the College of Nursing were slain by student Robert S. Flores Jr. who then turned the gun on himself.

But Huppenthal said the evidence shows that it makes sense, from a safety standpoint, to let people carry guns.

“The states that have concealed carry (laws) have statistically significant smaller mass shootings,’’ he said.

Huppenthal said he would not support guns on public school campuses, saying Arizona has no history of massacres on those campuses.

“The situation is different in our universities,’’ he said.

“We’ve had a mass shooting in our universities,’’ Huppenthal continued. “We sort of have a track record of not being safe in our universities.’’

And he said that, based on the research, allowing those who have concealed weapons permits to bring them onto campuses would mean “our universities would be safer.’’

University of Arizona lobbyist Greg Fahey said his school opposes allowing anyone to have guns on campus. And Fahey said he’s not convinced that rule should be waived for those with permits to carry concealed weapons even though they have undergone background checks, training in state laws and been shown to be proficient in the use of the gun.

“Our chief of police and the police of all three universities have consistently said that their experience is that having people with guns is just more of an invitation to have accidents, to have problems,’’ Fahey said. “And they don’t want anyone who’s not a sworn officer being armed on campus.’’

But Huppenthal said he’s not convinced that students and faculty are safer with gun-free campuses.

The senator said his requests for information from universities shows “they haven’t done any careful analysis’’ of the crimes. And what they have done, he said, only involves those crimes on campus.

“But the truth is, there’s a large number of rapes of coeds as they leave campus and they go to their home,’’ Huppenthal said. He said these women are forced to leave any guns at home — and leave themselves vulnerable while walking to class — because current rules prohibit weapons on campus.

Second Amendment as a mandate for militia service?

Over at the Coalition To Stop Gun Violence website, there is a post up on recasting the Second Amendment as a mandate for militia service. If executed faithfully, this would be a great idea, since every able-bodied male (probably females too, given sex-discrimination jurisprudence) would get a militia-compatible rifle, possibly a pistol, and a bunch of ammunition out of the deal. This new twist on gun control would actually increase the availability of guns and call into question the validity of any “assault weapon” legislation, since those are exactly the arms required for militia service.

The post says that Heller somehow provides a mandate to register all guns and, a la the Militia Act of 1792, all citizens would be enrolled in the militia. Apparently this is supposed to ban private sales of firearms and stop guns going down to Mexico.

A faithful return to the militia model of the early Republic won’t happen. However, the idea merits some discussion. I will cover the firearm implications, how a reduced standing army might impact our foreign policy, and what this new militia model is really about.

Uniform Militia Firearms (Rifles for Everybody)

When you read the Militia Act of 1792, you find that a good deal is about dictating force structure and armament of individual soldiers. If we are to move to a Swiss-style militia, this means our firearms and ammunition have to be compatible. And paid for by Uncle Sam if you can’t provide your own.

I’m not pulling this out of thin air. During my time in Afghanistan, I recruited, trained, and led a 128-man force of local militia in combat. I also trained, advised, and assisted three companies (about 200 men) of Afghan National Army soldiers at the Pakistani border.

When my detachment first began recruiting fighters, we had a room full of outdated and decrepit guns in odd calibers and very few magazines or machine gun links to string our bullets together. We didn’t have many bullets either.

My collection of oddball World War II-era machineguns was insufficient. I needed modern calibers, modern rifles, and compatible magazines. A renewed citizen militia would need the same.

This mathematical combination of Miller (the government can prohibit unregistered ownership of firearms unsuitable for militia service) + Heller (individuals have the right to keep and bear arms) dictates that privately-owned rifles be compatible with what our soldiers have.

The first requirement is ammunition. Militia rifles must be chambered in standard NATO calibers. If you want to get a large caliber hunting rifle, that’s on your own dime. Pistols would have to be chambered in 9mm or .45. Since these are the calibers the military stocks, we would have these available for citizens to practice with when they attend militia drills.

The second requirement is magazine compatibility. Magazine compatibility for pistols is not a strict requirement; the military purchases pistols from a number of manufacturers. Rifles are a different matter. Citizens would have to be able to feed their rifles with the 30-round magazine designed for AR-15 rifles, which are semi-automatic versions of our standard service rifle.

The other feature (or bug, to some) is that the federal government would provide weapons for those that could not afford them. As David Hardy notes, the Virginia Militia Act did this and the deliberations over the federal law took this into account; it was deemed unnecessary since there were so few men who did not have arms. That is not the case anymore – time for a bailout of the unorganized militia!

Reduced Standing Army

Our new “Homeland Security Militia Reserve Act” would have the advantage of making the United States impossible for a foreign army to invade and occupy. If we returned to the small standing army associated with our nation’s early days, we would also take ourselves out of the world policeman business.

The Militia Act of 1792 made sure we had decent defensive capabilities but limited our ability to engage in expeditionary warfare. The militias called up for the Spanish-American War trained up but many fought their deployment orders because they would be overseas when their mobilization periods expired. Several protested any deployment outside of their state borders.

The federal government responded by passing the Militia Act of 1903, also known as the Dick Act. The Dick Act moved state militias toward our modern National Guard model, with mandatory drills, annual training exercises, and unit inspections by regular army officers.

Later reforms further federalized the President’s control of part-time soldiers. Reserve units are completely under federal control. The National Guard and Naval Militia make up the “organized militia.” Though these are state units, the President trumps the state governor when they are federalized. Perpich v. Dept. of Defense. Able-bodied males and female members of the National Guard make up the “unorganized militia.”

The only units that remain under state control are State Defense Forces, state-organized units often made up of volunteers. Perpich makes the point that even these could be subject to call-up under federal statute.

So, a move to a militia system is a major restructuring of our military and might be a good thing. A return to universal part-time service and the limitations of a real “homeland security” militia make it impossible for us to wage wars of choice. There’s no way you could convince the citizen-soldiers that we need to head off to another Somalia or impose peace in Darfur.

The Real Motive

Now that we’ve explored the real implications of a return to the traditional militia model, what is this all really about?

Gun control. This is explicit in the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence post: “There are no libertarian individual rights in a conscript military organization.” Once you own your guns pursuant to the federal militia authority, the chain of command makes gun control pretty efficient.

The problem with this idea is that it misreads Heller. Or doesn’t read Heller. It’s not like the answer is buried in a footnote. You can’t get past the syllabus without finding a flat refutation of this militia model. “The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.”

WHEN American society collapse’s these will be the first 100 items to vanish

1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy…target of thieves; maintenance etc.)
2. Water Filters/Purifiers
3. Portable Toilets
4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 – 12 months to become dried, for home uses.
5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)
6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much.
7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.
8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.
9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar
10. Rice – Beans – Wheat
11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,)
12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)
13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY – note – food grade if for drinking.
14. Mini Heater head (Propane) (Without this item, propane won’t heat a room.)
15. Grain Grinder (Non-electric)
16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.
17. Survival Guide Book.
18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.)
19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc.
20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)
21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
22. Vitamins
23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)
24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products.
25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms)
26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil)
27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item)
28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal)
29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many).
30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels
31. Milk – Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months)
32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST)
33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)
34. Coleman’s Pump Repair Kit
35. Tuna Fish (in oil)
36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room)
37. First aid kits
38. Batteries (all sizes…buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates)
39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies
40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food)
41. Flour, yeast & salt
42. Matches. {“Strike Anywhere” preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first
43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators
44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.)
45. Workboots, belts, Levis & durable shirts
46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS & torches, “No. 76 Dietz” Lanterns
47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times)
48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting – if with wheels)
49. Men’s Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc
50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)
51. Fishing supplies/tools
52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams
53. Duct Tape
54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes
55. Candles
56. Laundry Detergent (liquid)
57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags
58. Garden tools & supplies
59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies
60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.
61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)
62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax)
63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel
64. Bicycles…Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats
66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)
67. Board Games, Cards, Dice
68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer
69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets
70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks)
71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water)
72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.
73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave)
74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
75. Soysauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soupbase
76. Reading glasses
77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)
78. “Survival-in-a-Can”
79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens
80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog
81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)
82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky
83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts
84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)
85. Lumber (all types)
86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
87. Cots & Inflatable mattress’s
88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.
89. Lantern Hangers
90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts
91. Teas
92. Coffee
93. Cigarettes
94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)
95. Paraffin wax
96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
97. Chewing gum/candies
98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)
99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs
100. Goats/chickens

Bad news for Utah and Florida concealed cary permit holders heading to Nevada

IMPORTANT NOTE FOR UTAH CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT HOLDERS- NO MORE NEVADA CARRY!

Nevada authorities have decided that Utah Concealed Weapon Permits will NOT, repeat NOT, be recognized in Nevada effective July 1, 2009.

Even though Nevada has recognized Utah permits for several years, they recently reviewed permits from all states and decided that they will no longer recognize permits from Utah or Florida. The excuses given are that Nevada law requires the other states permit requirements to be “substantially similar to” those of Nevada. However, since Utah does not require live fire to get a permit, Nevada will not longer recognize our permit. Florida permits are good for seven years, but Nevada permits are only good for five years, providing the excuse for dropping Florida.

The people involved with Nevada permits seem to include a few powerful members of the law enforcement community who are hostile to private citizens self defense rights.

Utah Shooting Sports Council and the National Rifle Association will continue to pursue actions to restore recognition of Utah permits by Nevada, but it may take several years and changes to the Nevada laws.

Meanwhile, DO NOT CARRY IN NEVADA with a Utah Concealed Weapons Permit!

A report on tazer guns and something only a man would do

I am not responsible for this. I am just reporting on it.

Just try reading this without laughing ’til you cry!!!
Pocket Tazer Stun Gun, a great gift for the wife. A guy who purchased his lovely wife a pocket Tazer for their
anniversary submitted this:

Last weekend I saw something at Larry’s Pistol & Pawn Shop that sparked my interest. The occasion was our 15th anniversary and I was looking for a little something
extra for my wife Julie. What I came across was a 100,000-volt, pocket/purse- sized tazer. The effects of the tazer were supposed to be short lived, with no long-term
adverse affect on your assailant, allowing her adequate time to retreat to safety….?? WAY TOO COOL!
Long story short, I bought the device and brought it home. I loaded two AAA batteries in the darn thing and pushed the button. Nothing! I was disappointed. I
learned, however, that if I pushed the button and pressed it against a metal surface at the same time; I’d get the blue arc of electricity darting back and forth between the
prongs. AWESOME!!!
Unfortunately, I have yet to explain to Julie what that burn spot is on the face of her microwave.
Okay, so I was home alone with this new toy, thinking to myself that it couldn’t be all that bad with only two triple-A batteries, right? There I sat in my
recliner, my cat Gracie looking on intently (trusting little soul) while I was reading the directions and thinking that I really needed to try this thing out on a flesh & blood
moving target. I must admit I thought about zapping Gracie (for a fraction of a second) and thought better of it. She is such a sweet cat. But, if I was going to give this thing
to my wife to protect herself against a mugger, I did want some assurance that it would work as advertised. Am I wrong?
So, there I sat in a pair of shorts and a tank top with my reading glasses perched delicately on the bridge of my nose, directions in one hand, and tazer in another.
The directions said that a one-second burst would shock and disorient your assailant; a two-second burst was supposed to cause muscle spasms and a major loss of bodily control; a three-second burst would purportedly make your assailant flop on the ground like a fish out of water. Any burst longer than three seconds would be wasting the batteries.
All the while I’m looking at this little device measuring about 5″ long, less than 3/4 inch in circumference; pretty cute really and (loaded with two itsy, bitsy
triple-A batteries) thinking to myself, ‘no possible way!’ What happened next is almost beyond description, but I’ll do my best… .?
I’m sitting there alone, Gracie looking on with her head cocked to one side as to say, ‘don’t do it dipshit,’ reasoning that a one second burst from such a tiny little
ole thing couldn’t hurt all that bad. I decided to give myself a one second burst just for heck of it. I touched the prongs to my naked thigh, pushed the button, and . .
HOLY MOTHER OF GOD . . WEAPONS OF MASS
DESTRUCTION . . . WHAT THE HELL!!!
I’m pretty sure Jessie Ventura ran in through the side door, picked me up in the recliner, then body slammed us both on the carpet, over and over and over again.
I vaguely recall waking up on my side in the fetal position, with tears in my eyes, body soaking wet, both nipples on fire, testicles nowhere to be found, with my left arm tucked
under my body in the oddest position, and tingling in my legs? The cat was making meowing sounds I had never heard before, clinging to a picture frame hanging above the
fireplace, obviously in an attempt to avoid getting slammed by my body flopping all over the living room.
Note: If you ever feel compelled to ‘mug’ yourself with a tazer, one note of caution: there is no such thing as a one second burst when you zap yourself! You will
not let go of that thing until it is dislodged from your hand by a violent thrashing about on the floor.. A three second burst would be considered conservative?
IT HURT LIKE HELL!!!
A minute or so later (I can’t be sure, as time was a relative thing at that point), I collected my wits (what little I had left), sat up and surveyed the landscape.
My bent reading glasses were on the mantel of the fireplace. The recliner was upside down and about 8 feet or so from where it originally was. My triceps, right thigh and both
nipples were still twitching. My face felt like it had been shot up with Novocain, and my bottom lip weighed 88 lbs. I had no control over the drooling.
Apparently I pooped on myself, but was too numb to know for sure and my sense of smell was gone. I saw a faint smoke cloud above my head which I believe came from my hair. I’m still looking for my nuts and I’m offering a significant reward for their safe return!
P.S… My wife, can’t stop laughing about my experience, loved the gift, and now regularly threatens me with it!
If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!

Look out federal gun grabbers on the march in border states

NRA-ILA has recently received several calls from NRA members in border states who have been visited or called by agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. In some cases, agents have asked to enter these people’s homes, and requested serial numbers of all firearms the members possess.

In each case, the agents were making inquiries based on the number of firearms these NRA members had recently bought, and in some cases the agents said they were asking because the members had bought types of guns that are frequently recovered in Mexico.

This kind of questioning may or may not be part of a legitimate criminal investigation. For example, when BATFE traces a gun seized after use in a crime, manufacturers’ and dealers’ records will normally lead to the first retail buyer of that gun, and investigators will have to interview the buyer to find out how the gun ended up in criminal hands. But in other cases, the questioning may simply be based on information in dealers’ records, with agents trying to “profile” potentially suspicious purchases.

On the other hand, some of the agents have used heavy-handed tactics. One reportedly demanded that a gun owner return home early from a business trip, while another threatened to “report” an NRA member as “refusing to cooperate.” That kind of behavior is outrageous and unprofessional.

Whether agents act appropriately or not, concerned gun owners should remember that all constitutional protections apply. Answering questions in this type of investigation is generally an individual choice. Most importantly, there are only a few relatively rare exceptions to the general Fourth Amendment requirement that law enforcement officials need a warrant to enter a home without the residents’ consent. There is nothing wrong with politely, but firmly, asserting your rights.

If BATFE contacts you and you have any question about how to respond, you may want to consult a local attorney. NRA members may also call NRA-ILA’s Office of Legislative Counsel at (703) 267-1161 for further information. Whether contacting a local attorney or NRA, be sure to provide as many details as possible, including the date, time, and location, agent’s name, and specific questions asked.

About:
Established in 1871, the National Rifle Association is America’s oldest civil rights and sportsmen’s group. Four million members strong, NRA continues its mission to uphold Second Amendment rights and to advocate enforcement of existing laws against violent offenders to reduce crime. The Association remains the nation’s leader in firearm education and training for law-abiding gun owners, law enforcement and the military.

All of you in California get your ammo while you can!

When You Can’t Ban Guns, Restrict Access To Ammunition

California is on the verge of doing it. Restricting access to ammunition since state and local banners keep losing in the courts system.

So now we are at Dateline Sacramento …. The State Assembly (sort of a House of Representatives) has passed Assembly Bill 962, by a vote of 42-31. AB 962 now heads to the state Senate, where it has been assigned to the Senate Public Safety Committee. The bill would make it a crime to privately transfer more than 50 rounds of ammunition per month.

Sponsored by Assemblyman Kevin de Leon (D-Los Angeles), the bill, if passed into law, would require ammunition retailers to be licensed, and dealers would be required to store ammunition in such a manner that it would be inaccessible to purchasers.

Further, the bill would also require ammunition purchasers submit to fingerprinting, which would be submitted to the Department of Justice. Additionally, mail order ammunition sales would be prohibited.

Bottom line: The bill would essentially criminalize the transfer of one box of ammunition to even a family member or friend, unless you are registered as a “handgun ammunition vendor” in the Department of Justice’s database.
This from a man who thinks its okay to trample on access to self defense tools by law-abiding citizens, but feels it necessary to apologize for past discrimination against Chinese in California. Who will apologize to current citizens for this blatant restriction? Making lawful Californians jump through hoops to make political points?

A shotgun review for the smaller petite person, the Remington 870 Express Youth 20 gauge shotgun

My wife, bless her soul, already enjoyed shooting before I met her. In fact, she even owned her own pistol at the time. But when it came to long guns, she had a problem – she is very petite, and holding and swinging field-length shotguns was difficult for her.

Overall weight is not so much a problem for her, but overall length is VERY important. After looking around, I bought her a Remington 870 Express Youth 20 gauge shotgun. While it is about the same weight as my field gun, it is nearly a foot shorter. Because of that, she is able to use it quite comfortably and effectively. We have several friends (including members of both sexes) who prefer this exact shotgun, and it is always well-used when we go out.

The stock is somewhat plain, but perfectly fine and functional. It includes a recoil pad of approximately 1″ thickness. The finish on the receiver and barrel is quite good, it is a thick, heavy finish that resists scratches incredibly well.

The action was a small bit rougher than I would have expected when purchased, but it smoothed out very quickly. Considering the price point of the gun, the action is what you would expect, perhaps a bit better. The trigger is also quite decent.

Overall, this shotgun is a large success. MSRP is, at the time of this writing, $385. I believe that I spent approximately $330, and the shotgun has more than lived up to the price tag. I have found no downsides, and am completely satisfied.

If you are smaller of stature, or are shopping for such a person, take a look at this shotgun – I think you’ll be very pleased.

Phoenix Arizona may be loosening concealed carry restrictions. Great news for firearm owners.

PHOENIX – Are you 18 or older? Not convicted of a crime?

Legislation set for debate Friday would let you carry a concealed weapon without having to bother with a background check, training and proficiency test, as is currently required.

Sen. Sylvia Allen, R-Snowflake, said she believes all Arizonans should have the right to defend themselves. Allen, who does have a state-issued permit to carry a concealed gun, said she does not believe that the law makes gun owners any safer.

More to the point, she said the law makes Arizonans less safe.

Allen’s proposal, SB 1270, does not do away with the concealed weapon permits. In fact, it would give those who do decide to get those permits the right to carry their guns into places now off-limits, ranging from school campuses in certain circumstances to various public events and buildings – including, as the measure is now worded, the public gallery of the state Senate.

Her proposal drew alarm from Attorney General Terry Goddard along with a handful of police chiefs and sheriffs.

“This bill would make a radical and very dangerous change in state law,” Goddard said at a Thursday press conference. “It would put our law enforcement officers at significant increased risk.”

Yuma-area law enforcement officials did not attend the conference, but Yuma County Sheriff’s Maj. Leon Wilmot said he knows of no sheriff in Arizona who supports Allen’s bill.

Yuma police spokesman Officer Clint Norred said police would have no comment on the bill because it is only a legislative proposal.

El Mirage Police Chief Mike Frazier said what Allen has proposed in SB 1270 would change how officers deal with the public.

“We’ve worked very hard to develop relationships within the community,” he said. Frazier said that means officers, in general, assume that most people they deal with are not hiding a gun.

“Now you’re concerned that every person you come into contact with is armed,” Frazier said. “And I can tell you, that will change the dynamic between the way we treat citizens that we deal with every day.”

But Allen said the protests against loosening state gun laws ignore a basic fact: Criminals don’t obey the laws we have now.

“Criminals could care less about any of the gun laws we pass,” she said.

“Gun laws are to restrict me, the law abiding citizen,” Allen continued. “It’s not to restrict the criminal.”

Frazier conceded the point. “I realize that criminals are going to carry guns,” he said.

“That’s why they’re criminals,” Frazier said. “But we’re talking about now having to be overly concerned about who may, in thinking they’re doing the right thing, pull a weapon in trying to assist us and, in fact, make things worse.”

Virtually anyone is entitled to carry a weapon in the open, a constitutional right going back to territorial days. But the idea of concealed weapons permits is a more recent legislative creation, dating only to 1994.

Goddard said lawmakers wanted to be sure that only those with additional training got to carry weapons out of sight.

Phoenix Police Chief Jack Harris said one of the things that training does is teach people that they should always tell an approaching police officer that they are armed. Nothing in the law, however, actually requires such disclosure.

Goddard, who intends to run for governor next year, said he also is concerned with provisions in SB 1270 that would let those who do decide to get permits to take their guns some places not now allowed.

For example, the measure would allow anyone with a state permit to go onto school grounds with that gun “for the purpose of picking up or dropping off a student.”
Allen said that exception is justified.

“They’re law-abiding citizens,” she said. “They’re not out to do any harm.”

Allen said she sometimes keeps her gun in her vehicle.

“So I take my grandchildren to school,” she continued. “All of a sudden, oh my gosh, I am breaking the law dropping them off at school, I have got to run back home and take that out of my car.”

Bringing the weapon into the school, however, would remain forbidden.

But the special privileges would not end there.

The wording of the legislation would let those with state permits take their concealed weapons into many public buildings, including the Senate. Allen said she has no concern with people with concealed weapons coming into the building where she works.

“They’re law-abiding citizens,” she said.

“You won’t even know they have anything,” Allen continued. “They aren’t going to use it unless their life is threatened.”